Compare Podcast Episode 2: In Conversation with Professor Tejendra Pherali

In the second episode of our Compare podcast series, we talk to Professor Tejendra Pherali, Professor of Education, Conflict and Peace at UCL Institute of Education, University College London. His research focuses on educational issues in low and middle-income contexts and the politics of International Development, with a particular interest in education policies and practices in forced displacement and post-war settings, as well as its role in peacebuilding.

Transcript

Professor Catherine Montgomery: Hello, and Welcome to the Compare Podcast Series! The Compare Podcast Series brings you interviews with internationally recognised scholars in the field of international and comparative education. The podcast aims to disseminate in a non-academic language search insights published by the journal Compare for educators, students, policymakers, and the wider global education community. Compare is the journal of BAICE – the British Association of International and Comparative Education. BAICE promotes teaching research policy and development in all aspects of international comparative education and is a diverse professional association composed of academics, researchers, policy makers, and members of governmental and non-governmental organisations.

I am Professor Catherine Montgomery. I am a Professor of Education in the School of education at the University of Durham in the UK. I’m also the Deputy Executive Dean for the Faculty of Social Sciences and Health. And most importantly, one of the Editors of Compare.

This is the second podcast in the Compare and BAICE podcasts.  And for our second episode, we’ll be talking to Professor Tejendra Pherali. Professor Tejendra Pherali is the Professor of Education, Conflict and Peace at UCL Institute of Education, University College London. His research focuses on educational issues in low and middle-income contexts and the politics of International Development, with a particular interest in education policies and practices in forced displacement and post-war settings, as well as its role in peacebuilding. He currently chairs BAICE and the Compare Editorial Board.

Professor Catherine Montgomery:  Welcome Professor Tejendra Pherali to today’s BAICE Compare podcast. Its really great to have a chance to talk to you, Tejendra. In today’s conversation, we would really like to get to know you and your research a little better. Can you share a little bit with us about your academic journey and how you got involved in educational research?

Professor Tejendra Pherali: Thank you, Catherine, for having me on the Compare BAICE podcast. It’s an honour to have been invited. My work primarily focuses on education in conflict-affected contexts. And I teach various courses relating to this field, and also carry out research internationally in conflict-affected contexts – this informs my teaching, so that I’m able to engage with postgraduate students with the research that I do, and that I’m committed to building a community of researchers and practitioners who have the critical and reflective knowledge about education in these challenging circumstances.

Professor Catherine Montgomery: That’s great, Tejendra! I just wondered how you originally got involved in that research and what what sparked your interest in that from the outset?

Professor Tejendra Pherali: I come from Nepal a country that was affected by Maoist insurgency and political instabilities for several decades. In 1996, violent conflict erupted in Nepal and I was working as a school teacher during that time. And I saw schools, teachers and children being caught in the violent conflict – and I always wondered why education was targeted for violent attacks. And I had also studied Sociology and Education –  these two disciplines brought my thinking together to try to understand the inter relationship between conflict and education. So initially, I wanted to examine the impact of violent conflict on education. But then later on, I developed my research around how problems in educational system, policies, curriculum and practises – were actually contributing to create those conditions for violent conflict. So, its really inspired through the experience in my own native context. And that’s how I actually started my academic journey – basically my PhD.

Professor Catherine Montgomery: That’s really interesting. Very interesting Tejendra. Its really interesting the way that our personal experience has this impact on our research now our own experiences. I mean your work has had a big impact on education in conflict and peace – could you tell us a little bit about some of the projects that you worked on so far?

Professor Tejendra Pherali: After I completed my PhD, I received a grant from DFID then –  now called FCDO –  to develop a collaborative research programme between universities in Cambodia, Nepal and the UK. And basically, this was to focus on – how teacher education programmes in universities can provide conflict-sensitive learning and professional development to be able to prepare teachers to work with children who live in conflict-affected settings. So, that was probably the first research grant I received when I was working in Liverpool John Moore University. It was a very interesting experience to see how little was realised in the education sector  – around the contentious role of education in fueling conflict drivers. We always know that education contributes to well-being, human capital ,and human flourishing –  that’s the foundational principle for promoting education. Plus societal advancement.  But very little was actually realised around the negative face of education, and I think this this project helped me to critically analyse the historical, political, economic, cultural dimensions of education in Nepal and in Cambodia –  that were actually promoting social divisions, inequality and discrimination through educational practices. So that was the beginning of actual research work that really sort of aligned with my own on PhD at the time.  After that, I’ve been involved in a number of other projects as you asked me Catherine. I worked on the role of Higher Education in promoting peace building in Somaliland, where we collaborated with the University of Hargeisa to design a research-based masters-level course on education, conflict and peacebuilding –  which was very grounded in the local realities, it involved local academics, politicians, youth activists and a whole range of other stakeholders in the local context – to generate ideas and curriculum content for that course which actually became a part of a  Masters programme in peace and conflict studies in the University of Hargeisa. I was actually recently invited to a fascinating conference at the Seoul National University in Korea, where colleagues from that University actually picked that work up and then have advanced that to develop a full masters programme on education, conflict and peace building in Somaliland. It was fascinating to re-engage with academics from Somaliland and from Korea to really celebrate some of the achievements that work has gained. And I can go on and on about the other things. But I’m happy to pick pick up on other projects that I’ve been involved in over the past more than a decade so we can pick them up later.

Professor Catherine Montgomery:  Fantastic,  Tejendra! And really fascinating! You’ve obviously worked in very challenging contexts, and challenging circumstances. What do you think are the biggest challenges you faced in these projects, and how have you overcome them?

Professor Tejendra Pherali: I think there are a number of challenges. But also there’s the excitement around the idea of being able to make a difference in those contexts – where this lack of access to quality education. Educational community has been hugely impacted because of ongoing violence and so forth. So that sense of achievement to work with colleagues who are living in those contexts, so the partnership and collaboration is certainly fulfilling. But as a researcher, when you travel to these conflict-affected contexts you hear a lot of distressing stories and experiences of educational communities. Many of them would have lost their family members. Their schools would have been destroyed by violent conflict. Children would have been affected by war. So it’s always in a way painful and you get often affected by these experiences as a researcher. It is very important to balance maintain your professional and academic integrity but also you manage to cope with the stressful and traumatic experiences of having seen those painful experiences. So yeah over the years, I think you build up this emotional connection with the with the colleagues who you work with in those contexts. So it no longer becomes your profession or a job – it becomes part of your life and part of your human responsibility.

Professor Catherine Montgomery:  I think amazing and so interesting to hear about that . I’m sure you’ve seen a lot of changes over the years that you find been working in these contexts change began work with them you know do you feel that things have improved or got worse and you know what do you think the trends might be you know in the future what do you think what do you think will will happen in the future?

Professor Tejendra Pherali: I think over the years, what I’ve really observed is you know a gradual shift in thinking in our field. I feel basically looks into this you know Education and Development in international contexts. And unfortunately, it sort of has the legacy of the colonial past as the field of Education and International Development. So over the past decade, I think there is a strong critique of the of the field as it develops. Development Studies and the work on Education in conflict-affected contexts is also situated within that debate. I think the conversations around decolonisation, ethics, the power relationships between the sentence is set these critical questions have come to the forefront. What I’ve really seen is this emergence of some of the personal questions around the failure of the modernisation theory –  the critique of this idea that the West has solutions to the challenges faced in the Global South or conflict-affected context. I think there’s a greater level of recognition around how donor countries, Western in some ways, has become complicit in reproducing the problems in these settings. So there’s a call and there’s a tresistance essentially from the bottom, from the grassroots around the architecture of development as well as the processes of knowledge production.

I was involved in a social movement learning project which was funded by ESRC where we collaborated with activists from 4 different countries: Nepal, Columbia, South Africa and Turkey – and the idea was to actually build solidarity and build companionship in learning from the activists who were fighting for justice, human rights, educational rights, and freedom. Those social movements in these countries will becoming spaces of knowledge production – where is the traditional academic sort of system that tends to extract knowledge and put it behind the paywalls, essentially. And that we’re involved in this research to try and sort of build that collaboration. And promoting the value of the processes of knowledge production within social movements and how the knowledge that is produced through the social movements could actually enhance the struggles of the people who produced that knowledge. That was quite a transformative experience for me as an academic. So in a nutshell, I think we’ve kind of begun to enter the era of academic work and practice network where there is a there’s a call for more horizontality in partnership and humbleness and respect for the grassroots knowledge. I think that’s what I think I’ve observed in the shifting over the years.

Professor Catherine Montgomery: That’s brilliant. Really fascinating and interesting to hear your perspectives on that you know it’s something that you know we do see reflect literature that’s emerging

You know you have these you have these big responsibilities. And to change the topic slightly, but just wondered how you first got involved with BAICE? How have you seen the organisation evolved over time?

Professor Tejendra Pherali: Yes, I joined BAICE I think around 2009 – almost about 15 years ago – just as a member of the association. I was subsequently nominated to serve on the Executive Committee as an Ordinary Member. It was a wonderful opportunity to be part of this community, and which actually brought me to the network of scholars working in the field of comparative and international education. After serving for one term, as an ordinary member, I actually took up a position as the Vice Chair, and then subsequently as the Chair of BAICE. BAICE a great association, we often call this a BAICE family –  that is not a huge association like some other societies. But also but it is quite inclusive in my view. But also constantly engaging with its membership, and constantly responding to the academic debates in our field. And also engaging in building solidarities with scholars and activists who advocate for right to education – not only in the UK but more internationally – ss you know Catherine, you yourself as a Co-Editor of the Compare Journal. Ss the Chair of BAICE, I also sit on the Editorial Board as the Chair of the Board. And it’s an honour to be able to work with the Editorial Board of Compare, where we have, over the years, championed this collaborative, non-hierarchical and very inclusive ethos of working. As you know, the four Co-editors lead the journal work collaboratively in on xxx  manner. Also in BAICE Executive Committee, we’ve also promoted this very inclusive and horizontal leadership practice, where BAICE officers collaboratively make decisions about key issues that the society faces. And we organise conference and we have committed to keeping the conference registration fees low. As an association, that doesn’t intend to make money out of conference. So we redistribute all the sort of revenues that are generated from the conference. And also the revenue that is generated through the Compare to promote the scholarship of early career researchers but also scholars from the Global South. As you yourself (Catherine) lead this initiative called Compare Fellows – where we invite fellows from low-income context to collaborate with scholars in the UK, which actually provides amazing learning experience for scholars in the UK – which is something we need to constantly remind ourselves and be appreciated.

Professor Catherine Montgomery: Absolutely! that’s great and I just wondered you know with all those duties with BAICE with all the research that you’re doing, and you know fascinating research very engaging work. How do you manage to balance your role as as a Professor with your leadership duties at BAICE. That’s a lot to take on.

Professor Tejendra Pherali: That’s an interesting question. As academics, I think we have multiple roles – as we do we have research projects to work on, we also are involved in teaching, many of us are also we engaged in scholarly activities, serving professional and learning societies that we are part of. It is certainly sometimes overwhelming as you can imagine. It is also very rewarding and fulfilling to be able to lead the association – make a real difference. For example, during my time with BAICE, we successfully registered the association in the Charity Commission. And we developed policies around BAICE grants. We’ve also really kind of formalised the way that the various decisions are made within the association. And I think BAICE has reached its new heights over the past four years. What is really important is to have a leadership culture in the association where you know the voice of all members, and specially the colleagues who you work with in the executive committee or the editorial board, are heard, incorporated and they just check for various perspectives. There’s inclusion and equity, if we if we do that and that we we’re able to refer you know improve the value of the association, and you know bring more benefits for its for its members. So even though I’m very proud of what we’ve achieved over the past four years, this would not have been possible without the sort of dedication and commitment of everyone who is involved in the journal but also various scholarly activities that BAICE has led over the years. so I’m very proud to have been part of this team – both in the journal as well as BAICE.

Professor Catherine Montgomery: There generally mentioned sorting different parts of your B word I just wondered what you feel is being the most rewarding part of your career to date

Professor Tejendra Pherali: That’s quite a difficult question. But I was wondering I think this is this is the interesting question. What I really have valued is the opportunity to work with you know educational practitioners in these very challenging circumstances. In arout 2014, I went to Lebanon – just after the Syrian war had broken out, and thousands of Syrian refugees had started coming to Lebanon. I collaborated with an organisation called multi aid programmes And this organisation is led by Syrian refugees in Lebanon. I actually connected with this organisation with some of my Masters students at UCL, and many of them actually went to work with this organisation on teacher professional development. I engaged with them for a period of time, and I still actually connected with, and we developed a collaborative research programme. We were able to really kind of create value through collaborations between our universities and the association that was working in this very challenging circumstances. So that makes me feel very proud. Because you know we were able to bring the an academic work into practice in the real world circumstances. But also, we’re able to develop some new ways of working in refugee settings. So as a result, later redeveloped course design – massive open online collaboration –  which is a teacher professional development course for teachers and practitioners who do not have the opportunity to sort of attend formal training in universities and institutions. This is the kind of value that is created through these kinds of activities which makes me feel quite satisfied. Second thing that I’ve been very proud of – is  really how we’ve constantly promoted the scholarship activities of early career researchers. I think that’s been a very sort of prominent a work of BAIE and over the weekend I was part of the BAICE early career researcher conference. And it was quite humbling to be able to see how doctoral students and early career researchers in collaboration with BAICE are engaged in active sort of academic activities and have benefited from these initiatives promoted through BAICE. So these are some of the things that I’m very very happy to have achieved.

Professor Catherine Montgomery: That’s fantastic and I mean actually that leads on very nicely to my final question – You know, based on all of your experiences and knowledge that you’ve built up over the years, and it’s fascinating area of and important area of research –  What advice would you give to new scholars or early career researchers in comparative and international education?

Professor Tejendra Pherali: Oh Ok. This is a challenging question I I suppose that there’s no one single piece of advice to everyone. I think we all come from different backgrounds and we all have different kinds of challenges and opportunities in our academic life. But I think we live in a society which is affected by you know violent conflict, mass displacement of populations, rising authoritarianism, and also global inequalities and climate crisis. So I think the new generation of scholars in their field have enormous challenges. But also, you know, opportunities to shape our field in such a way that we’re able to engage more critically with with our field. I also think as an association like ourselves as BAICE, it needs to really promote inclusive ethos, and there’s always a risk of being kind of in the middle of confusion and dilemma about the direction that the association needs to take because we live in a hugely polarised politically divisive society. Our members are equally divided in terms of the political issues and theoretical perspectives, and what we’ve experienced. That’s really a challenge. I think to ensure that an association works in service of everybody, but also being very respectful to very strong emotions and feelings of its members. I think we have to grapple with those challenges constantly – so I think BAICE has always committed to promotion of social justice, equity and rights of education, and human rights of people, who’ve been affected by different challenges – including violence or oppression and so forth. So I would encourage all scholars who are coming to our field and we’re building their academic careers, to be bold! You know systems of violence –  whether they’re physical or structural – so I think we need ethical scholarship, we need to challenge the domination of epistemic monopoly and manipulation. And I think there’s a lot of discussion around epistemic justice and decolonization of education, so I think these are the key concepts and issues that are going to be prominent in reshaping the future of our field. So I would certainly encourage early clear researchers to be mindful about what is happening in the the world and how our field can contribute to to make a positive change.

Professor Catherine Montgomery: Thats fantastic, Tejendra. it’s been reallyinteresting to talk to you today. And thank you so much for spending time with us on our second BAICE Compare podcast. It’s been really fascinating insight into your work and your career. Thank you very much indeed.

Professor Tejendra Pherali: Thank you so much Catherine for having me. It was an honour to speak with you. Thank you.

Professor Catherine Montgomery: Subscribe to the Compare Podcast Series. Share its content with friends and colleagues. And feel free to use it as learning material in your teaching and professional context.

Speakers
Catherine Montgomery

Catherine Montgomery is Professor in the School of Education and Deputy Executive Dean (Global) for the Faculty of Social Sciences and Health at the University of Durham. Catherine has a particular interest in transnational higher education in China and East Asia. Her recent work focuses particularly on mobilities and immobilities in international higher education and the internationalisation of curriculum and knowledge. Catherine is also interested in flows of international students and what these can tell us about the changing landscapes of global higher education. Catherine is Editor of Compare: a Journal of International and Comparative Education.

Tejendra Pherali Bio Pic

Tejendra Pherali is a Professor of Education, Conflict and Peace at University College London and past Chair of the British Association for International and Comparative Education (BAICE). Professor Pherali is interested in critical debates on international development with a particular focus on education in emergencies, post-conflict educational reforms, the role of education in peacebuilding, political movements and social change, political economy of education and critical pedagogies.

Related Resources

Pherali, T., & Turner, E. (2017). Meanings of education under occupation: the shifting motivations for education in Palestinian refugee camps in the West Bank. British Journal of Sociology of Education39(4), 567–589. https://doi.org/10.1080/01425692.2017.1375400

Pherali, T. (2016). School leadership during violent conflict: rethinking education for peace in Nepal and beyond. Comparative Education52(4), 473–491. https://doi.org/10.1080/03050068.2016.1219538

Magee, A., & Pherali, T. (2017). Freirean critical consciousness in a refugee context: a case study of Syrian refugees in Jordan. Compare: A Journal of Comparative and International Education49(2), 266–282. https://doi.org/10.1080/03057925.2017.1403312

Pherali, T. (2021). Social justice, education and peacebuilding: conflict transformation in Southern Thailand. Compare: A Journal of Comparative and International Education53(4), 710–727. https://doi.org/10.1080/03057925.2021.1951666

Pherali, T., & Buckler, A. (2022). In memory of Honorary BAICE member, Professor Lalage Bown. Compare: A Journal of Comparative and International Education52(3), 517. https://doi.org/10.1080/03057925.2022.2042068

About the Compare Podcast Series

The Compare Podcast Series brings you interviews with internationally recognized scholars in the field of international and comparative education. The podcast aims to disseminate in a non-academic language research insights published by the Journal Compare among educators, students, policymakers and the wider global education community.

Compare is the Journal of BAICE, the British Association of International and Comparative Education. BAICE promotes teaching, research, policy and development in all aspects of international and comparative education and is a diverse professional association composed of academics, researchers, policymakers and members of governmental and non-governmental organisations.

In each episode, one of our hosts together with one member of the editorial board of Compare engage in a 30–40-minute conversation with an academic to discuss research that relates to educational development and change in different parts of the world.

Subscribe to the Compare Podcast Series, share its content with friends and colleagues, and feel free to use it as learning material in your teaching and professional context. 

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