Compare Podcast: Dr Mona Jebril

Compare Article

Dr Mona Jebril (2023) Between construction and destruction: the experience of educationalists at Gaza’s universities, Compare: A Journal of Comparative and International Education, 53:6, 986-1004, DOI: 10.1080/03057925.2021.1987190

Tejendra Pherali

The Compare Podcast series brings you interviews with internationally recognised scholars in the field of international and comparative education the podcast aims to disseminate in a non-academic language research insights published by the journal Compare among educators students policymakers and the wider global education community.  

COMPARE is the journal of BAICE – British Association of International and Comparative Education. In each episode, one of our hosts together with one member of the editorial board of the Compare engages in a 30 to 40 minute conversation with an academic to discuss research that relates to educational development and change in different parts of the world.

Uma Pradhan

Our first guest in this Compare Podcast Series is Dr Mona Jebril. Today, we explore the experiences of educationalists at Gaza’s universities under occupation.  

Aizuddin Mohammad Anuar

At the present time, the Higher Education system in Gaza has collapsed. According to “Scholars Against the War on Palestine”, a transnational coalition endorsed by more than 3,400 scholars around the world, Israel has bombed every university in Gaza. More than 200 educators and 4000 students have been killed in the latest round of Israeli assault. The current situation in Gaza and wider Palestine has been described as a “scholasticide”. 

Uma Pradhan

We will be discussing with Mona her  Compare article, titled – Between construction and destruction: the experience of educationalists at Gaza’s universities. This paper was published online in 2021 and in print in 2023, in Compare Volume No 53 Issue 6.    

Uma Pradhan

My name is Uma Pradhan – one of the editors of the journal Compare,

Aizuddin Mohammad Anuar

And I am Aizuddin Mohamed Anuar, Book Review editor of Compare. And we pleased to co-host this conversation with Dr. Mona Jebril. 

Aizuddin Mohammad Anuar

Dr. Mona Jebril is a Research Associate at the University of Cambridge Centre for Business Research, and Bye-Fellow at Queens’ College Cambridge. Mona is a Palestinian academic who lived in Gaza for 22 years and worked at two of its universities. She is an interdisciplinary social scientist focused on Gaza and conflict-affected areas in the Middle East. Follow her on X, formerly Twitter @Mona_Jebril  

Uma Pradhan

Hi Mona. Welcome to the Compare Podcast. Thank you for joining us today. You are the first guest in our podcast series, and we are really excited to talk to you.   Your article titled, Between construction and destruction: the experience of educationalists at Gaza’s universities – was published in Compare in 2023. In this paper,you draw on the research you conducted for your PhD as a Gates Scholar at the University of Cambridge, between 2012-2017. Tell us a bit about this research. Why and how did you get interested in researching higher education (HE) experience for educationalists at Gaza’s universities? 

Mona Jebril

Thank you so much Uma and thank you Aizuddin for inviting me to the first podcast which is really exciting. I am an interdisciplinary social scientist but actually I have a lot of background in education. I worked for several years as a teacher at public schools and a lecturer at two of those universities. My academic qualifications are also in higher education. My MSc is in higher education, and my PhD is in education. So, when I wanted to start looking for my PhD, I was at that time working as a lecturer at one of Gaza’s Universities teaching the BA in Education Programme. And it was very clear that lecturers and students were working under very unconventional conditions including of course at the best dating blockade lack of resources frequent words context of season Palestinian separation internal challenges as well. I was reflecting a lot about this because I noticed that academic work at the university may also be undermined by hidden challenges. I didn’t quite know what that meant at that point but I thought this was something invisible that I would like to explore. So when I started my PhD at Cambridge, I came across a similar observation by Sarah Roy who also talked about the structure of the development in Gaza. I decided to take this observation of the invisible and the de-development from reflection to research. So, I took this as my PhD topic and of course it was supervised by Professor Diane Reay at the University of Cambridge.

‘In Gaza, we are considered as if in a prison, albeit a large one. The aeroplanes and bulldozers are surrounding us from all sides. The sea is for a long time restricted. Everything here is hit with frustration […]. No one can leave or enter. Everything is closed, and our internal resources are zero.’ Mr Omar – An academic living for 55 years between borders and barriers in Gaza (a quote from Mona’s paper).

Aizuddin Mohammad Anuar

Thank you, Mona, for that introduction. So based on your research, can you speak a little bit about the difficulties that are faced by the academic staff at the university that you studied?

Mona Jebril

Yes, I think the difficulties are coming from all sides. So it’s not only from the University or related to academic work. But also related to the context in which the university functions and lecturers and students. This means that, as I indicated, Gaza suffers from a structure of “de-development” that affects all aspects of life. This means that the economy is suffering. There is an increased level of unemployment, there is increased restrictions on academic mobility. So academics and students had to also face 6 to 12 hours of power cuts. This creates difficulties preparing for lessons, of course, correcting exams, using PowerPoint, if at all available, or planning of events. There is also the war, repeated war. So since 2008 at least four to five wars took place in Gaza. This research was conducted from 2012 to 2017. And during the course of this research at least two wars took place. And when we talk about war, we talk about so many destruction. And this destruction are physical and psychological as well. It touches the university space – the offices, the buildings, the equipments. But it also demolishes homes neighbourhoods and creates frustration and trauma. The restrictions on mobility, which I describe in my paper as a structure of “de-mobility” discourages academics from even going or participating in conferences or going to pursue their higher education. Sometimes because of the difficulties that they are likely to face in their way back or in their way out. So even when the border happens to be open, which happens in unpredictable ways, they are likely not to take the risk. Unless there is some kind of backup plan what happens if they were locked out. There are, of course, the restrictions on mobility also means that limited books, limited academic visitors – so this affects the university with lack of diversity. It limits the horizon of the university in terms of their ability to establish platforms that connect them with the global sector of higher education. The Palestinian society also suffers from Palestinian schism, which means the separation between Hamas and Fatah which also added basically more challenges to the internal community. So these are just the sample but there are more and I can continue basically talking about this that in the podcast.

‘Sometimes [the Israeli soldiers] would stop students on their way to the university, the UA. They would stop [… .] particularly university students [… And then out of provocation] order one to hit his friend, to beat him [… and] to spit on his face.’ Mr Suleiman, an academic in the university in Gaza, who with his colleagues have initiated new diploma and master’s programme at the UA which widened Palestinian access to HE (a quote from Mona’s paper).

Uma Pradhan

So, in this context of development and the mobility that the academics are facing in Gaza’s universities, how do they manage or try to navigate these challenges? You also mention in your paper that there is a contradictory role of social network, kinship and social relations. Could you tell us a bit more about it?

Mona Jebril

Yeah, of course. Thank you for your question. I think in brief they do their best that they can, they push as much and as hard as they could. And there are several factors that motivate them to do that. Sometimes I mean the data showed that, for example, lecturers sometimes relied on the religious beliefs for motivation. So because they believe that if they work hard and sincerely – this entails an obligation from God and that it will continue to benefit people. Sometimes what motivated them was a just sense with patience that they need to be patient. And also this is linked to a sense of fatalism – that is this is our faith and we have to do our best. Within it, we cannot change this context and we want to improve life as much as we could for us and for the new generation. Which is also linked to the nationalistic motivation because they feel also they want to help the new generation of Palestinians. They perceive education not only as a way of, you know, gaining financial security or employment but also as a way of resisting the occupation and resisting injustice. Also, there is the social context, and the social context looks at lecturers as role models. So they would sometimes also be motivated by feeling that it is their mission to be strong all the time, even when they don’t actually when they have themselves being exposed trauma, like for example, at the time of the war they will do their best not to show this to their students. For them, students and lecturers together, sometimes also they look at higher education as a space for hope. Some of the lecturers have also during their course of life been exposed to several obstacles and restrictions. They feel more experienced a bit in, and between brackets, and they are now can basically learn also from these experiences to adapt. And you asked also about the social support or network.  I think the data showed that there is the kinship in particular was a strong factor in the social networks in Gaza. And this seems to be playing on the positive side and on the negative side. Which means on the positive side, of course, social network is reported to have helped people. Especially at the time before for example the internet was available to access opportunities of higher education and of employment abroad. Because they could link them then to these opportunities. Also social network has proven for many people as helpful during times of wars because they could help each other seeking refuge at a refuge at each other’s home. Also supporting each other to be strong to be resilient. But on the other hand, because the context of Gaza which had severe lack of resources and opportunities, there is the sense of competition. And sometimes, these competitions are related to basic rights basic human rights such as healthcare or maybe employment. And so this competition created sort of relying somehow on this kinship for access of these scarce resources. And which made it sort of nepotism being somehow condemned as natural in the society, as the data have shown. I have not conducted a specific research on this point however the data has pointed towards that.

‘It would take me three or four hours sometimes to reach my work place, […]. When I enter the lecture hall, I would find that the students were equally late, or have not come at all.’ Mr Zeyad is an academic working in Gaza, who studied for his Masters in the US (a quote from Mona’s paper)  

Aizuddin Mohammad Anuar

So Mona, how did the education lists in your research utilise the spaces within higher education to navigate or assert their positions or agency despite or amidst all of these challenges that you mentioned?

Mona Jebril

Thank you. It varied by the time as well, because for example when we talk about lecturers – some of them have witnessed, were teaching at the time of war or studying as well at the universities, when these universities were closed. And so they turned to alternative ways and spaces like the mosques or their homes – turning their homes as schools. I remember one of the interviewees mentioned that her teacher for example took the chemistry equipment to her home to help students during this period of closure. So they strived with whatever spaces were available for them. And, of course, then things also change with the Internet. Then the people have also alternative spaces because they could also link to other, for example, universities or educational institutions as well and have some sort of exchange. In general, those who have been also receiving their higher education in other countries or foreign countries even before these liberties have become available in Gaza, they use their expertise basically to open a new Masters and PhD programmes as well and empower their students as much as they could. There is a general influence of Egyptian education on Palestinian universities. And this is, of course, linked to a history of I think almost two decades of Egyptian curricula and text being taught at Gaza. But also linked to the proximity and some scholarships also that were available. So there are, as I mentioned, the universities to try as much as possible to find empowerment in whatever spaces could be available at the time.

‘I was trying to escape [the war], and to feel that I was still alive’. Ms Etaf – an academic in a University in Gaza who published a research paper amidst the war in 2014 (a quote from Mona’s paper).

Uma Pradhan

Thank you. We talked about educationalists, and university lecturers doing different things to manage these challenges. What about the students how have their experiences been shaped by these political contexts?

Mona Jebril

I think students have been affected because they live in the same society, obviously. So the impact of occupation, of restrictions on movement, of repeated wars, of the economic conditions –  all reflect on their life and on their education. For example, with regard to employment, there is a high rate of unemployment and especially among the graduates which reaches around 70%. So this has a lot to do – it is impacting on their motivation as students. Because many of the interviewees, student interviewees, talked about basically their education journey as being a journey without aim, without hope. They have seen queues of graduates who could not find any employment for them, even after four years of studying. So, they try basically to get higher marks. So they increase their competition in the very limited labour market available. Generally,For example, teaching is looked at as a female space – mostly female students will be encouraged to study for education, so that they have a teaching job. But now the data also pointed that males started to also wanting to study teaching. And the reasons they give for that is not their interest in teaching or becoming teachers but because this seems the largest labour sector for employment that is available. And they hope that it may give them better opportunity for kind of permanent employment. So, they the same thing that I mentioned about fatalism and about religion as well, are used or sometimes students draw on their sense of religion and on a sense of fatalism as well, on social support to be able to go on with all these difficulties and focus on their education. While some students also reported looking at education actually as a space where they can experience their agency as the mini-states – you know considering the university as a mini-state, where they could actually feel some joy by connecting to their lecturers, feel through the reading they are reading for example at the university or things that they are learning. They feel they are in different space and again it gives them this sense of hope of a better future.

‘I was raised in an environment where all my family are educated, so I followed their footsteps’ Nawal, a student in a University in Gaza (a quote from Mona’s paper).

Aizuddin Mohammad Anuar

So, Mona, you did mention about how the choice of education pathways are also related to potential employment prospects and the differences say initially between female and male experiences and choices but did you also find any other kind of differences along the lines of gender in terms of student experiences in these universities in Gaza?

Mona Jebril

Yes, thank you. I think generally I would say that the experiences differ. So there is a disparity. However the data shows that males seem to enjoy more freedoms than females in Gaza. And restrictions on females for example included prescriptions sometimes on their specialisation. Aometimes females are the ones who are choosing education because they have taken the decision that this is actually better for me for employment or for whatever. But there are other students who talked about their society a kind of describing this to them as the best choice because then they can have better time, it’s more suitable for a female compared to a job that would require night shifts, for example. And then they also some students also talked about -female students talked about surveillance over their dress, as they are in the university. And this surveillance sometimes included not only wearing jilbāb or but also including the colour, including the design – whether it has buttons or not, including the headscarves. They also complaints about limitations on their ability to travel for higher education alone. Some said that their family or their society would require them to have a Mahram, a male relative, basically who’s mam to travel with them. And, of course, there are also limitations for travel if they have responsibility for their homes. So, there were disparity again about these accounts – some students were still feeling that their families would encourage them to go on. But this seemed as general theme from the data that females enjoy relatively smaller spaces of freedom than males. Female lecturers also reported about biased scholarships, between males and females, and also challenges that they face in their leadership positions. Interestingly, some males talk about actually that they perceive females as having more advantages than them. Because they are higher in the higher achievers in their academic study. And also they reported that sometimes employers actually would prefer to have a female employee because they work harder or whatever. The data also pointed towards a contradiction between the reality for female students inside the university and outside the university. In a few cases, where at the university females may be felt more empowered and could decide for themselves. even go a smaller small set of making a small set of choices related to their study. While in the society. they felt that they still had to fit within a traditional perception of the role as females. Again males contradicted mentioned something, which also was interesting, that they perceived females actually as receiving better treatment and that the university would be more flexible with females than males. However, they were also kind of supporting this contradiction in thinking that OK we actually have better space in the society compared to our female counterparts. So again, the data showed contradictory impulses about gender which would be interesting to explore in more detail.

Aizuddin Mohammad Anuar

Thank you, Mona. So, in concluding your paper you mentioned, and I quote, empowering Gaza’s universities and their educationalists requires interventions that would connect the procedure universities with a lifeline of truly generous international academic support that is based on the Palestinian experience. So by way of conclusion, how can our listeners learn more about this and contribute to this lifeline of support?

Mona Jebril

I think it’s really an important question and specially at this time for Gaza, where what is happening in Gaza at the moment – all universities have been damaged, students studies have been disrupted, the condition of displacement, the loss, the suffering, the humiliation and the humanization – requires that world universities also discuss among themselves what they could do to support higher education in Gaza – students, lecturers, universities. Based on recommendations, I talked about empowering Gaza’s universities and their educationalists, at the time I wrote this research, considered that since we’re talking about a context of the “de-development” and what I described in my research paper as a process of construction and destruction, and this is continuous. I try to visualise it in my thesis actually as a swing – so you do construction and then it’s destruction, construction – destruction, so how do you deal with that?  So my recommendation was actually to increase the construction in relation to the destruction. Because it seems that there is always it has always been that there is destruction there. And the way to do that within limited resources in Gaza, within continuous challenges on all aspects, is really difficult. And so having a lifeline to empower these universities is essential! And this lifeline… because we’ve seen also through the history of education, of higher education, and both Palestinian developmental context, more generally, that there are efforts that happen.  But sometimes donors interventions and developmental interventions also make their political agendas. And so this is why I emphasise on “truly generous” that it does not work to undermine Palestinian right to Palestinian self-determination. The suggestions I thought of, at that point, and possibly now also could be explored in relation to the current situation is that these universities need to be connected with global higher education – through partnerships, through programmes, through collaborations. We need to create platforms for the voices of Palestinian academics and for Palestinian students and encourage them to share their own experiences – whether in publications, conferences or other ways as well – to contribute with their own voice about their own higher education, to create opportunities with scholarships and widening participation for students in Gaza, more generally. But now also thinking about OK what can we do to these students who, all of a sudden, have seen their universities being blown up, and they are in their third year or fourth year?  What can we do for these academics? And once these students come basically to study international universities, do we assume these students to be just within the body of international students or do we actually create mechanisms also to acknowledge that there are conflicts, that there is a situation of war, and conflict, and occupation and this needs to be considered in helping these students and staff to be included in the university space. Donors and funders need also to base their projects on the Palestinian experience. I hope that my research can contribute to that as a memorandum of initial understanding basically on some aspects of the university experience. But I’m sure there are also other ways to learn about this experience including conducting research on Gaza which is a significantly under-researched contexts, supporting libraries with online subscriptions as well, translation services, creating remote and physical opportunities for employment as well. And when I’m talking about this it just comes to me that it is not when also international universities would help and connect with Palestinian universities, they should not look at these universities as being inferior. Because this came also in one of the pieces of research that I conducted, where the perception was that these are disadvantaged universities So what are we actually going to benefit from them. But I think that Palestinian academics have proven to actually perform to the highest levels, when they had the opportunity of studying and of connecting to global higher education. I really hope very much that the listeners of Compare Podcast as well as world universities and all people who are able in the position to help Palestinian students and universities –  to try at least to explore what can be done to support them now or whenever at the nearest possible chance, after this war ends.

Uma Pradhan

Thank you so much for speaking to us today and sharing these important insights from research. And thank you so much for the wonderful work that you’re doing as well. We really appreciate your time.

Mona Jebril

Thanks so much, Uma. Thanks so much, Aizuddin. I really appreciate this opportunity for sharing my research on Gaza.

Aizuddin Mohammad Anuar

Thank you, Mona.

Academic Life under Occupation in the Gaza Strip

A series of videos from Mona Jebril’s Cambridge PhD thesis. Her research is entitled: “Academic Life Under Occupation: The Impact on Educationalists at Gaza’s Universities”. It is a sociological study which explores the past and present higher education experience of educationalists at Gaza’s universities, and how this experience may evolve in the shifting socio-political context in the Arab world.

Video 1: Introduction to the series

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6Td7Svlh0Xk

Video 2: A Journey Without Aim, Without Hope

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QCu5wmsQsO0

Video 3: A Life Between Borders and Barriers

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MEsHTZSwG9Q&t=1s

Video 4: The War Experience

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vaZFEdTnoh4&t=315s